Tuesday, 8 October 2013

My thoughts on "Hutterites, the nine our story to freedom"



Well, I am not sure how I am going to start with this book, so I will just write it as it comes to mind. I had been anticipating reading it, and now that I finished it, I have to say it didn't disappoint, it was exactly as I had thought it would be, a sad bitter unforgiving story, there is drama, there is intrigue, at times it is funny...but....the underlying fact is bitterness.  For once, just once I want to read a book by an ex-hutterite that would be truly honest and write all the facts and the truth, and not just their side of it, as we all know the truth has 3 sides, your side, my side and then the actual truth. One of my friends read the book and said: “how sad, the colony must have somehow failed them when they were children” I am more of the mind that they failed the colony.

They have before and after pictures in the book. This is almost funny, I wonder how long they searched through their old photos to find the somber sad ones they used for the before pictures. And then the one they used for the after, happy, joyful, dancing, water-skiing, all things they were not allowed to do in the colony.  (and I might add a lot which are not approved of at all, eg: dancing.....) According to them, we who are still in community are sad, depressed and missing out on all the wonderful things the “world” has to offer! Pardon me if I don’t feel that way, rather I feel sorry for them who find small worthless passing of time this world has to offer.

They start the book off with a dedication to Jesus, and continue it with:  “that they the nine, are presenting this work with the love of God, in truth without any bitterness, unforgiveness or resentment towards the Hutterites” well, I am sorry but I missed the parts where they presented it as such! There is a lot of underlying bitterness and hurt (that may or may not be justified) they claim that what they wrote is the truth, well; I am not going to deny that some truth may be present in what they wrote, but leaving out a whole lot of other truths, can and will distort the whole picture. One of my sister-in-laws’s when she read the book, put it aside and said: “where are the ‘born again Christians’ that are supposedly writing this book? I cannot see forgiveness at all!”

I am going to put down my thoughts and feelings as best as I can, I will try (and I say try because I already know I won’t quite succeed...) not to be too sarcastic as I write.....

No.1, this one thing irked a friend of mine to no end. “Each (of the nine) of them had to be taught how to clearly and effectively communicate, to relate and express his or her heart socially. The very basics had to be taught, including clothing, proper hygiene, and etiquette” !!!!  What?! Taught proper hygiene? Etiquette? Where were they raised? And how? Where were their parents? Each and every child in the colony gets taught that by their parents and the German school teacher. Each and every one of us know the song by heart, “Beim tisch gebet sei ernst”  a song that verse by verse teaches hygiene and etiquette!  When I went to German school we had what our German school teacher called health inspection, we had to have a  handkerchief, clean nails, brushed teeth, soapy clean fresh washed hands and face, combed hair. And woe betide the student that forgot, a sufficient scolding and shaming was what we got...now I don’t know if every German school teacher did that, but I know our parents didn't let us out of the house if we hadn't done that.  As I said I don’t know if everybody did that, but I can’t believe the nine weren't taught proper hygiene at all.

One would think when reading this book; the colony was/is a depressing way of life. I won’t deny some of what they said wasn’t/isn’t true, but I am going to talk about some of what they said.

Gossip and slander....now this is true, I know I have done it, and it is being done. There really is no excuse but I will try and explain.  We are human, we stumble and we fall, and yes, we gossip and talk about people behind their backs. but does that in itself not tell you that we are not mindless robots under control, that we are free to speak out minds? (not that that makes it right...) Most of the gossip is harmless, and not all gossip is evil. come on, we all do it, as for slander yes, that happens too, but what they didn't mention is that most of the time, when we do that, we come back to the person we hurt and we ask for forgiveness. And it makes you wonder, why isn't it mentioned at all? Or would that defeat the purpose of the book?  In a colony we are all expected as much as we can to pull our own weight, by helping out as much as we can. If a person is ill or can’t for one reason or another, we help out, but if a person can and doesn't, trust me, he or she will get to hear about it. For example, if we have a heavy work day in the garden or slaughter house and someone is missing, who says they are sick, fine, but if the said someone is at home cleaning her house or dusting rugs or the next day is wearing the newest dress which was just shared, they will hear about it. And yes, this happens.  And then try not to gossip or say anything. The proper way to go about it, if it happens more than once is to let the leader (in this case the minister) talk to this person. But for the truly sick, it’s another story, and even those who can’t help out, try to and help out in other ways. If they for some reason or another can’t be in the garden to pick string beans, they will always ask for a basket of beans to clip the tops and ends. So to conclude yes, there is talk and gossip, but we do make things right. To the one girl that ‘took a midol to go to work’ because she didn't want others to talk about her if she missed work, I am pretty sure that even now she takes a midol to go to work.  Of course now if she misses too much work, she doesn't get paid. So yes, I’m pretty sure she still takes that midol to work. 

The drinking...yes there is that, and again, we are not perfect, (although why someone would tell the whole world her father was an alcoholic is beyond me.  Underage drinking is not approved of no matter what they say. Not saying it isn't done, but can anyone tell me if, they have a 16, 18 year old son, and they have a hard day’s work they won’t share a beer with them? I am not going to downplay the seriousness of drinking and the consequences but I will also not say nothing is being done about it. If a certain member has a drinking problem he will be questioned and in some cases there are those who have joined AA. And yes we do care when someone has an addiction, and our ministers are there to help.

To those that felt they were restricted in their Christian growth, why? Was it because their beliefs were contrary to the colony’s? When we live in the community and are baptized in it, we are expected to uphold and live the convictions of that community, when personal gain and income is contrary to the teachings of the colony, yes you can be expected to be reprimanded and admonished. There is no room for individuals to live according to how they want and work only for their own ends and the colony’s gain is put aside. For how can a colony go forward if its members only care for their own gain? Who will take care of those who can’t?  Which brings to point the story of being locked out of the garden, if you’re there for personal gain, what is left for the colony’s? I know as a child we were not permitted to go into the strawberry patch, (also because of damage done to the plants) unless the German school teacher was there with us. One wonders what is not being told when they tell of sneaking out for a “few ears of corn” was it truly only for a snack, or was it for more? Many a colony has gone to financial ruin because members have been more concerned with making money on the sly for themselves than putting it into the community. To be fair, maybe that is all they wanted was an ear or two to eat at night, but from experience, there is the stealing and gaining for personal use that is a problem. And even though it isn't mentioned here, I think it can be said was the reason for it.

There are so many things that I want to touch upon yet, but this is long enough already, I will try and discuss some other points later. But I do want to comment  upon Glenda’s story a bit.  Dear Glenda, really, can you really truly not understand why your parents do not acknowledge your marriage to a divorced man? Our English school teacher said: “I am not a Hutterite but even I can see why her parents would have a problem with her marriage.” You quote so many biblical verses to justify your marriage but you deliberately and conveniently omit Jesus further sayings on the subject of divorce. Yes Jesus did allow for divorce “except it be for adultery” but He did NOT allow for remarriage. "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11-12). (whoever means anybody and everybody, NO exceptions) In all that we can safely presume that God wants us to forgive the erring spouse, He did allow divorce in cases of adultery, but that wasn't mandatory, how many times did He say we should forgive?  As for Paul: he is NOT saying that when someone deserts his/her partner that the deserted  are free to remarry, he is only saying they are not ‘enslaved’ (bound) to that marriage. Let them go and so remain.  Now we can quote and misquote bible verses back and forth, but the fact remains that God does not change neither does His word. He absolutely hated divorce then and He does so now.  I am sorry for you Glenda, but do not presume to think that your parents actually hate you; they may hate the fact that you did marry a divorce man, and they grieve for you, but in all that they still love you.  As a ministers daughter you could and should have been more compassionate to their beliefs and convictions.  Of course this is your story, but in no way do you at all consider how they must feel. I think I can safely say they are praying for their daughter daily, and that they do love her.

An underlying note that is foremost when reading this book that is strongly noticed and that is a rebellious spirit, under no circumstance did these young people actually try to commit to the colony and it’s teachings at all, there is complaining to no end, is it when the colony entrusted them with a job, (even when it was the one they didn’t want) or where ever they could. The sacredness of church, our dress, our baptism is being mocked. These are all things I want to comment on but will do so later, as not to make this blog so long. Please feel free to comment and I will try to answer any questions.





60 comments:

  1. Dear Lydia,

    Thank you very much for your attempt to set right what so many disgruntled and discouraged people have been writing over the years! Listening to the long collection of what modern plain communities have done wrong is truly depressing. But I would rather hear it now and work on it, with the Lord's help, than enter the day of Judgement with so much bitterness and an unforgiven heart. We plain people are the first to admit that we have done many things wrong, over the years. But what is our option? All we can do is keep on fighting for the right, with the spiritual armour of fasting and prayer! Let us use it much, love one another and press on!

    Those who get tired and turned back, only jump from the frying pan into the fire. I do not envy anyone who has left a plain community to live in "the world."

    Paul describes the loving believer as the one who "keeps no record of wrong", who "does not delight in evil", and who "rejoices with the truth".

    That is our job in our time!

    Peter Hoover

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    1. Mr. Hoover,
      thankyou for your reply and your thoughts, I agree, each and every one of us could write a book, we all, no matter where we are from be we Hutterites, Amish, Catholic or whatever we are, or have been, will we write about the bad things, which do happen, I know I could, or will we take the high road and forgive and forget?

      we girls used to joke, that when we write our memoirs, we would put so and so in chapter 5 and she/he did that to me in chapter 9. it isn't funny anymore. but I can't resist adding this, one of our girls said: "I was punished for going into the strawberry patch when I was a child and now "they" make me pick them!" I know I know, but it is funny!

      what gets me is that there is no telling of the good things. the fact that the colony clothed them, fed them, gave them a home, furniture....and more, how when there is hurt, the whole community suffers with them, rejoices with them....how sad......

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  2. I can say some positive things about "Hutterites, the nine our story to freedom" book: It has the ring of honesty and It makes good use of scripture.

    But it’s also true that a spiritual Hutterite does not trust anything but God’s grace for his or her salvation. I have known Hutterites who are spiritual, and I could not dismiss them with a one-size-fits-all critique as this Book seem to do. Almost all of the critiques that the nine makes of the Hutterite community as they had known it could be made to some degree of almost any Christian group – Catholic, Protestant, Mennonite. The wisest response might be to accept whatever in their protest that is true, and necessary of correction, while at the same time not giving up on the valid Christian truth that still lives in the Hutterite community.

    I have not found that Hutterites think they’ll be the only ones in Heaven. I feel certain that God has nothing against a people that tries to preserve the best in culture, as long as they keep in mind that God should stay central, rather than tradition and culture. Then, if need be, God will adjust and change cultural modes so that they line up with His Word. God should be given full chance to gradually – sometimes even radically – change, mold and shape culture into the likeness of his Son Jesus. But in order to make ourselves more available so that God can change us, we must familiarize ourselves thoroughly with God’s Word (Holy Scripture, as interpreted Christ centrically, that is, from the perspective of the living Christ Himself – including his mind, spirit, message, and life) and not place tradition and culture above biblical teachings. The challenge for the Church of God is to live in ways that are consistent with the essence of the gospel of Jesus Christ as articulated in the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. How do we succeed? By seeking and accepting God's grace, His Holy Spirit, which gives us the power required to live a holy life as Jesus teaches and commands us. 2 Tim 1:9.
    Continued.....

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  3. In regards to the accusation that Hutterites don't believe in Jesus has to do with how they interpret and understand the Bible.

    Here are my observations-The Hutterites understand the Bible differently. In contrast with the Hutterian Brethren some folks practices tend to emphasize the sinfulness of man and his inability to live the Christian life. Their emphasis is on the atonement Christ made on the cross for you. Hence through this sacrifice, God overlooks the sins of man from the past, present and future, and accepts these people in spite of their sin. The Hutterite believe in the forgiveness of sin too, but they believe that once a person has the Holy Spirit in his life he will begin living a new kind of life in Christian Community where Jesus is Lord and they are his disciples following in His footsteps. Another important difference between the Hutterites and easy believism has to do with how seriously the Bible is taken. For example, the Hutterites believe that if Christ said it in his Sermon on the Mount, he meant his followers to live it. The Jesus that some false prophet preach is definitely different that the Jesus that the Hutterites follow. Their lightly considered lip confession falls far short of being the true faith. Let us remember that even the devils believe in God, and tremble (See James 2:19), but they are not repentant or born again; hence their faith does not save them. The world wants to travel the easy path to the kingdom; they shy away from denying themselves and taking up their cross. After all, we are 'saved', aren't we? Why do we have to then suffer needlessly? This is what the false preachers will tell them; this is what the evil one will whisper in their ears. They will tell them that Jesus is our savior but they will be reluctant to tell them that Jesus is also your teacher and that you must obey him. The Jesus that the Hutterites believe in as follows; truly believes in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is not a simple, nod-of-the-head sort of thing. It is passing from darkness into light, making complete about-face, to turn around and go in a different direction. True believing is to surrender our life to God and to destroy all selfish and earthly ties that would hinder fellowship with Him. But in the House of God it is commanded: "If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

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  4. Hi Anonymous,

    thank you for your reply, you said all I would have wanted to but couldn't! I appreciate your taking the time to reply.

    as you said it has the ring of honesty, yes it does, but we all know that the half truths and omissions in this book, do more damage than a blatant lie would. my issue with this book is that they left out a whole lot of the truth, why not tell it all? I have always tried to be fair when I do something, and that someone would not, is just not fair! lol, I try to see the whole picture when reading about cultures, and being a Hutterite that has been misunderstood by many books, people and tv shows, I can empathize with different cultures that are misinterpreted.

    and the one thing that I have learned is that if someone who has been in that said culture, and writes about it, it may not and is not always authentic. by which I mean it isn't always the whole truth that is being told.

    but you are also right that in some instances the wisest response would be to accept our failures and learn from them. If I was sarcastic in some of my post I do apologize it certainly will not heal relationships. and regardless what they wrote, I do feel from the heart for them and have them in my prayers. and yes, not all who say "Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven"

    for me prayer is a private holy time with God. I have been slightly uncomfortable when ppl burst in prayer about me. I am more of the type 'go into your closet and pray' not saying others are wrong when they publicly pray, but this is me. more on it later.

    take up your cross and follow me is definitely something that many do not wish to do. searching for an easier (?) way into heaven by not carrying their cross is the way to go about it, it seems. I agree it is easier to just walk away from problems rather than staying and working them out, but is it right?

    I presume you are a Hutterite, (hence the anonymous) but if not, I do so more appreciate your reply. thank you!

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  5. Lydia dearest all I can say is you go girl!!!! I wrote the same thing, allthough not as long, in a letter to the Brandon Sun. I had to vent....sadly the letter wasn't published :( and I couldn't finish the book. It just upset me too much!

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  6. Hi Lydia, thanks for some great insights here! I became very discouraged after reading this book and did a lot of soul-searching and I came to the conclusion that these people MUST have been raised differently. Where I grew up, we heard the message of salvation daily, we were taught about not having the outward appearance only, about not having 'wishy-washy' religion, we had wonderful times in the garden with all the ladies, a happy, loving, family circle, our parents really loved us, we had Christian friends coming to our house to visit all the time and fellowshipped openly with them, as with other members of the colony. The time when I got baptised was one of the most profound in my life. Not that everything was perfect, but while satan still roams like a hungry lion, where is life perfect? So maybe reading this book has some good in it, lets not take our salvation and community living too lightly!! Oh and I love dressing modestly and wearing a head covering, my husband appreciates the fact that I do it from my heart :-)

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  7. thanks all for the encouragement, I felt I had to say something, but I do hope I am doing it with a humble spirit, I feel as if I need to say it, not so much to the nine but for the "outsiders" and "englishers" who may not know us and may think it is as the nine wrote.

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  8. One of my observations upon reading the book is that I suspect their leader wrote a good deal of it.

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    1. I agree Don, however, there is VERY little mention of him in the book and when questions are asked about their church leader, they skip around the question.

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  9. Lydia,
    You did a great job on the blog post and I hope it goes viral and comes back to them.
    We need to show them that we still love them and keep them in our prayers every day.
    I grew up with three of the nine, Glenda was in my grade, and when I watch the video interview of her, I can't help but see the "painfully" fake smile that she's wearing.
    There's no way that the girl that I cheated from in school, could ever be happy marrying a man that's older than her dad. And why didn't she take her husbands last name? just curious.

    I can't imagine the pain that their parent's are feeling.

    As far as freedoms are concerned, think about it this way, if we didn't have to ask to do anything, and could just go out and do what we wish, how many people would take advantage of a system like that? how long would a system like that last? 1 year? 2 years? probably the former.

    And what are they trying to prove with that book? are they looking to convert some Hutterites to the, (what I call) "Phillips" cult? if that's their mission, they're failing miserably!! all they're accomplishing is bringing pain to the people that still love them.

    I'm gonna stop now before I go too far..

    G.M.

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    1. Hi Greg,

      thanks for the comment, I agree there is something "fake" about the whole book, and I haven't mentioned it, but also underlying pain and suffering, not necessarily from their experiences in the colony, but what happened after. Glenda for instance, you can see/read that she is incredibly hurt by how her parents shun her. but at the same time, I don't believe for one minute she doesn't understand why.

      all along I have been thinking, and one more thing I would like to say to the nine is, "whatever you say or do, don't burn your bridges" this is not a threat, but a plea. Your family still loves you, but you are (as Greg said) bringing pain to them by what you are saying and writing.

      Psychologists could probably have a field day trying to figure out why they made the choices they did, but what's done is done, we need to sit back and find out where we as people in the community have failed and work on them. I think we can handle what is being said, but I do wonder what others think who only know of us through such books.

      I will try to put together a list of books that would be of interest to our "englisha" friends and neighbours, books that actually tell a little more truth of us.

      thanks for the comments, Greg if you can could you send me the link to that video interview? my email is offthewollman@gmail.com thanks.

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  10. I believe you are completely missing the point. That hutterites are a cult. they have to do what their leader tells them to do or they are excommunicated or shunned. But because cult members are brainwashed from childhood, they don't see that, because it is the only way they know to live, and that's what becomes their norm. and nobody dare question it.
    The leaders word trumps Gods word any day as far as hutterites following the word of God is concerned. the problem is they say would say that their leaders are Gods representatives. AND THAT MY FRIENDS IS WHAT ALL CULTS DO. AND WHY ALL THEIR LEADERS HAVE ALL THE POWER.

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  11. Its really interesting how they claim they are so much happier now,if that were true why would they want to live in their past, reliving it over n over, i think they r bored with their leader already!! This book smells money and a small mind

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  12. one "wrong" cult don't make a "right" cult.

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  13. Oh dear, so is a family a cult too? Where the parents tell the kids what they r allowed to do or not to do?

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  14. Hi Anonymous (the cult one!) lol your post is actually funny! so if we have to do what our leaders tell us to do or risk being shunned or excommunicated, who tells our leaders what to do? are they under risk of being shunned and excommunicated too? who is their leader? what an awful lot of leaders, let's say there are 3 per colony, (I'll make it small) and I don't even know how many colonies there are, but I will say 500, that's how many leaders? (you do the math) and they all work the same? come on! you're not that narrow minded are you? Do you really think they could control so many people and we wouldn't figure it out ourselves if we actually were a cult? seriously you need to get out and look around!

    that was funny tho.....thanks for the laugh!

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  15. I find that often when people write from one side or the other, by that I mean Hutterites or ex-Hutterites, one side vehemently criticizes the other; whether it’s “The Nine”, or some other “scarred” individual. I suppose this is a natural response to someone who condemns the very core of your belief, but the thing that most people tend to forget in situations like this is that one Hutterite’s experience will differ vastly from the other. I cannot stress this point enough; you may be terribly offended that someone would accuse your faith of something horrendous, but oft times there is truth behind it.
    That said, we must also remember this: “The Nine” were obviously convinced and manipulated by their “leader” that atrocities have been committed against them and their persons. That much is evident from the book; there is no forgiveness in it. There is however, much bitterness, resentment and even hatred. I believe that “The Nine” have legitimate grievances, but how are those grievances excluded from forgiveness? I myself spent years in bitterness against every Hutterites and vehemently condemned them, but in time my heart was changed. I have come to love and accept my roots, they are and will forever be, a very essential part of myself.

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  16. Anonymous, thank you for your honesty here, as it has been said in the above and in the comments, everybody can have a grievance against anyone, no matter what church or where they are from. I am glad your heart changed, it's just not worth it. but the purpose of this post is to let the nine and the rest of the world know, that yes, we, the hutterites, admit that what they wrote has some truth in it, but they did not at all, write the whole truth. and that is what bothers us. yes they were hurt and wronged but how much of it was their fault? according to them, nothing.

    can we accept what they wrote and improve on the wrongs? I believe we can, but at the same time if we 'give in' to what they demand (?) what will be left of us? we would no longer be what God wants from us, call us stubborn or what you may. if we let go of our heritage and 'traditions' we can only become what so many churches 'out there' are now. where sin is no longer sin and shame no longer shame.

    yes we are fallible, we have never denied that, but to have it packed into such a book and 'thrown' at us with all those accusations, that does hurt, and more so because of the little 'truth' that is in it. but best to forgive and move on, like you seem to have.

    thank you again for your comment.

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  17. Lydia, that is where the brainwashing that was done as a child comes in. its already done. Hutterite experiences in general do NOT differ. but personalities do. certain personalities you couldn't get them out of a cult, or see that they are being controlled, with a bomb.
    how do you think David koresh was able to kill everyone along with him. HE HAD NOBBODY QUESTIONING HIM in the years leading up to it!!!! You know they call anyone "twisted" who even questions anything....
    the interbreeding alone should tell you that this is wrong.... or do you need a few hundred more victims.
    besides common sense telling you this is wrong. nature itself is trying to show you
    as far as the books your going to post. you know as well as I do,, that they are a reflection of the ideal, and not what's really going on.....

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  18. Anonymous (cult guy) you know I could talk until I am blue in the face, and something tells me you won't change your mind. so I am not going to bother to answer you anymore, I only ask you keep it respectful if you are going to comment. otherwise, write your own book and publish your own blog where you can say what you want and think. thank you

    and I will comment on the 'twisted' any questions I have ever had regarding anything we our communities do I have had answered, most with a biblical answer too, and I have never been called 'twisted' if you are going to compare us to cults, please don't use murderers or the like.

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  19. Stumbling in the dark. Groping for answers. Hoping against hope that they'll find something to feed their starving souls. And they go on searching and seeking and believing, never once considering its what their doing that's wrong. Everything you could ever be, ever achieve, "who you are". You are already. You walk away from you because you keep trying to complicate life with more useless things. STOP arguing. STOP searching. Love is truth. Live in love. Enter the heart. Every religion on earth says this. The core concept. So many miss because they miss the point. They want to be right so they fight. Don't be right. Be love.

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    1. Is this a song? It reads like lyrics...

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  20. As a former hutterite from the same colony as the nine..I wish they would have mentioned the pain and suffering that others went through by the hands off their parents.While being in charge of the dining room for children ages 14 and under my nephew and nieces have terrible memories of the abbusive nature in which things took place while those very same 9 sat and looked on and said nothing,my nephew and nieces were treated in a cruel and abbusive manner which should not be tolerated from adults

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    1. I would be very surprised if only your nephew and your nieces were singled out. and if the nine were children themselves, what do you think they should have done? write about others? this book is about themselves!

      although why you wish they would have written about it, is beyond my comprehension, I got punished as a child, sometimes unfairly (I believe) but there were times when I wasn't punished when I did deserve it, and as I certainly won't go back and say: "hey I deserved a spanking when I did so and so" in as much I won't go back and say, "hey I didn't deserve the spanking I got for so and so." better to forgive and forget. something we all need to work on, including you and me.

      I don't wish to comment on something that I wasn't privy to, but where were you and their parents when this happened? The parents I know would not be silent if they felt their child was being mistreated.

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    2. Well you know how much control parents have in a hutterite setting,were others are in charge...u basically have no say..I on the other had was no longer a hutterie

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    3. I have since writing this been corrected by my family members.....it was the (nine) that that treated and abbused them in a horrible way...the parents are as much at fault by allowing it to happen

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  21. Don't you find it a little funny to why people start stealing from the colony like those "few ears of corn"..not only a snack but a sack..Its not because they want to steal its because they have to steal to survive while there are those who have a darn good time living of the colonys profit without getting caught. Especially leaders they should be an example to the rest of us.They are the ones who get to be treated "Extra Special" Now adays its like this if your not born into the right family your screwed . You have to figure out to paddle your own boat.Why is it that in the last few years so many of our people leave our communities? I believe its not because Christianty or anything to do with God. Its because nobody really gets treated equally anymore..so much hatred going on its becoming a hard life to live. and leaving the colony way of life is the hardest decision any of us ever has to make.its not just a get up and go kind of thing. Especially leaving behind everything you ever worked for. I believe they are not exploiting us they are just saying what they feel!..Just look at other religions Islam for example those that break away to christianity how they tell their stories.That doesnt make them bad people.. Yes i believe that they need forgiveness in their hearts against how things went down for them. We need to start more praying for each other ..other than bringing each other down all the time.. The problem with our great hutterite society is that its not about God anymore in the way our ancestors did. Bottom line we all need to get together and fight for what is right!! Where are we gonna end up! The thought is scary... Thats all for now ..May God bless us all!!

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    1. Anonymous, please refrain from profanity, I don't want to moderate comments, but if you (and others) continue in abusive language I will have to.

      are you seriously wondering why so many ppl are leaving the community? I can start out by telling you, no. 1 their own free will, and by that I mean they no longer wish to work for or as a community, having money in their own little pocket, no longer content with what the community has to offer.

      the leaders, as you and the nine so put it, do not have access to the money as you would like to tell the whole world they do. Sure the financial boss and the ministers names are on the checkbook but every check has an accounting, and every penny they spend has to be answerable to the community. I am not saying that it isn't possible that there are false leaders, but they can only go on so far and they will be held accountable, "and they will be and have been caught" by the church and by God, who will not be mocked. but trying to justify stealing and making money on the side, with which the colony does not gain from is wrong, no matter how you put it. speaking for myself, all my needs have been supplied by the colony, maybe not all of my wants, but who says that is a bad thing? :-)

      I agree those leaders should be an example to us, and for the most part they are, worthy leaders that have been entrusted with an enormous load, especially our ministers. For those few that have betrayed the trust given to them, they have been exposed, but they are far and few between, why are you not telling us about the leaders that have wept and cried for members that have betrayed others? doesn't give as much drama does it?

      as for our ancestors they had the same problems then as we have now, if you read our history you will find countless records of unfaithful members and how the church prevailed against all obstacles, and the faithful, sometimes only a handful was all that remained to continue God's plan. Nobody is saying we are perfect, we are only human afterall, and yes, a lot of ppl are hiding in the community, getting a "free ride" so to speak. but those are the ones that are eventually found out as chaff, when the winds of tribulations come.

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  22. I have one question what is the point of this book? what is it supposed to accomplish?

    I smell a lack of funds on Freds part.

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    1. I don't know, if their intentions were to get the hutterites attention, well it seems like they did accomplished that! lol

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  23. The funny part is, the nine were oh so sorry for themselves that they couldn't further their eduction.Now they have the chance.........whats wrong? don't want to go back to school anymore?

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  24. Jaleesa Waldner

    Every colony is different. I grew up on the same colony most of The Nine did. Hillside, MB. I hated it. My whole life on the colony my family and i were treated SO unfairly by the people in power. Even though I've left the colony, when I go visit my parents they still take time out of their day to vandalize my vehicle. In Hillside, if your not in the boss' family it just sucks to be you. I could literally write a book but I've moved on. There is so much hate on that Colony, I'm not surprised we are seeing so much bitterness and unforgiveness coming from The Nine.

    To The Nine: if you are reading this, before you go victimizing yourself and try to come off as innocent people that never did anyone wrong, remember all those years you spent bullying my siblings and i? I do. You should be ashamed of yourselves. So should the adult supervisors in the essehschul that saw it happening every single day and did nothing about it. How you could let innocent children get treated that way on your watch is beyond me.

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    1. Jaleesa, while I appreciate your commenting, I do not appreciate your venting on the nine here. if you can't tell them yourself, please don't let hatred and bitterness be published on this blog, thanks.

      blaming others for things that happen to us is a waste of time. get up, pick up, and carry on!

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    2. Lydia, if she was bullied by the nine i think its very fitting.

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    3. If she was, according to the book the nine were the ones being bullied, but that is beside the point, I don't want name calling, mudslinging and "he did this, she did that", done on here, take it outside please, and remember it doesn't and won't heal relationships.

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    4. no problem...i see your cherry picking :)

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  25. Talk about the ball curving back to them, sorry you can write that you were mistreated, but at leeast you are truthful by saying 'in hillside' instead of placing all the colonies in one nutshell, which is very ignorant

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  26. there are some truths, some opinions. very personal stuff i think. but so far all i see is immaturity. like the gibb and oiler thing. immaturity. two sides of the same coin. two ends of the same stick. you meet in the middle to fight instead to make friends. thats immature. its not even childish. children are more mature. they quickly see the futility of arguing and fighting. well...thats my take. this is for the instigators. if the hutterites themselves were better they would look at the 9 as subjects of interest. maybe try to learn in sake of prevention. this is a lot like luther nailing the thesis on the door of the catholic church. the church couldnt move beyond their own traditions. they were suffocating each other. thats whats wrong.

    with love ---- Im in the middle. meet me there

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  27. Lets be truthfull here. if a member is searching for truths and the hutterites can't provide them, they are called ver vikklt. which is the same as twisted. you mean to tell me you never heard those words, and actually applauded the ridicule???? And please don't say they can leave. Because while they could, they really can't, because the hutterites do not equip their members to leave, we are raised to think that if we leave the colony they will not be able to make it. the hutterites belief that members leave to have their own money, I ask you, where is said money??? I'll tell you where it is, it goes towards the cost of living.!!!! so you might want to retire that excuse.

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    1. trust me, no one has left a colony with an empty hand, I am pretty sure you know all about stolen truck loads of grain and hogs and of garden production that were never benefited by the colony. and no they were not prosecuted. and all this done by so-called born again Christians. where when they leave they can afford to buy a mansion. so please don't try and excuse stealing and lying.

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  28. Can't we all just get along......:)

    I'm guessing this book was published in an attempt to regain the money lost in a failed lawsuit.

    Also I fear that they are currently in a deeper bondage then any colony could ever offer.

    4given hutterleft...

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  29. I agree with you about that. from the pot into the fire. but then all people who leave cults are at risk. Cause they gravitate towards the familiar. Talking from experience.
    But I don't agree that they are in deeper bondage. because what they did was take the first step in their life journey. Everyone is on a different path. but you can't start unless you take the first step. and conquering the fear of leaving everything you know, and being shunned because of it, is one giant step.

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  30. I have a difficult time understanding Hiedi and jaleesa talking about unfairness in the colony, by "children" in the essenshule. Children can be cruel. we all have experienced that. that's when you learn about the world around you. and its not always pretty. hopefully after that we become a responsible adults. We can't expect responsible behaviour from adults in our lives, but we can accuse children of being childish??? what is wrong with this picture? they were children!!!!!! How petty and immature! Read 1 Corr 13,11

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    1. I was thinking the same thing, are we going to bring up things we did as children? its just sad.....

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    2. lydia...did the nine bring up childhood issues......IN RETURN WHAT DID THEY DISH OUT TO OTHERS...please dont comment,as i will no longer comment

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  31. If people wanna leave the colony just do do. About this "cult" thing- since when is teaching religion a cult? Does anyone see any high fences or locked gates at entrances to ANY colony? Why are the said "nine" trying so hard to justify their leaving? As far as I'm concerned, education or not anyone willing to work hard will make it financially in the outside world. I have personally seen "verlufna"" with a grade 8 education start up & run companies that are very succcessfull. And they did not need to slander their colony to do so. I'm sure they had troubles also or they wouldn't have left. But it was the people not the system.

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  32. Heidi you "judge" their present lives based on their childish behaviour as children.
    They; discuss their childhood as part of their story. can you at least try to understand this concept.

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  33. i 100% agree with the book the about the nine, some of them were excommunicated from their colony for being born again christians, how can you be excommunicated from a group that calls themselves christians, hutterites say they are a christian colony, why all the slander gossip hatred and if you leave the colony you are cut of and shunned, ever day your life is controlled you cannot make decisions on your own. even in some colonies you can more freely talk about the Lord, but try and get together to have bible studies with the young people cause you have a hungry for the truth you will hear about it leaders dont like it. i know of hutterite baptized members who have left the colony that were told they are going to hell, hutterites believe they are the only ones going to heaven, cause some hutterites have been excommunicated for saying they have brothers and sisters in the Lord outside the colony. their is also alot of fear if someone wants to leave, i am a hutterite i know how it works, it is not according to the word of God, first of all why cant we have english bibles in church, u are gossiped about if you do, i see the nine as being brave for writing that book and they want people like myself who are still stuck in a colony to be set free, the hutterite system is wrong,

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    1. because your definition of "born again" is vastly different from what the hutterites define as being "born again" no. 1 usually when someone says they are born again they totally go against the Hutterian churches stances on faith and community.

      as for young ppl getting together for bible studies, how many wrong interpretations of God's word do you think would come out of it? we have always been encouraged to come to our parents and ministers with any questions we would have had. My uncle always said "if seeking souls are not given what they need by their leaders in the community they will go elsewhere", radio preachers, eg, and who knows what they may find there. as we can see by those who have left, they are still searching, going from one church to another, seeking and not finding rest for their souls. my heart goes out to them and as my uncle said: "who will be accountable for those lost souls?"

      I don't want to be a pessimistic person here, but one wonders how long the nine will be with the 'church' they are presently at....

      a number of times, it is also a rebellious spirit that breaks away, one who has never even tried to know what 'gelassenheit' actually means.

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  34. So why don't you leave?

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    1. because for a lot of ppl the Hutterite colony is still a good place to be if you want your needs to be taken care, eg free room and board, like someone said it's the best welfare system out there. unfortunately that is true. there are always those who take advantage of others.

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  35. Lydia I believe you meant well in your opening thoughts of this blog. But you described a cult to a T. that is what people refer to when they mention cult. The very way hutterite colonies function, is cult like. But I do agree with you that, in order for a cult to function, things have to be done just like you laid out in your introduction. But that does not make it right. people are not raised to make decisions for themselves, raise their own children, discipline their own children. what are some the ideas all cults "generally" have in common?

    Large families, (making it almost impossible even contemplate living anywhere else)
    Minimal education, (minimizing the chances of any prospects outside the cult)
    One main leader ( he has overall say, ie: hence, if anyone chooses to oppose? I give you oiler gib scenario )
    Patterns of acceptable behaviour (robotic)
    No variations in peoples goals, dreams. (all based only on what the colony has and can provide).
    The leaders and their families, get all the perks (the other member just have to accept it,
    unless they happen to be on their side that particular week)
    Parents have no say in children discipline outside the home.
    Dress codes are decided for them. (hence all looking the same)
    Belief systems are universal (rather than chosen based on individuals spiritual growth, needs and beliefs)
    Jobs are handed out based on favoritism,( rather than skill and knowledge. unless the person with the skill is friends with leaders)
    Use only the scriptures that suit them, and their hutterite agenda (use them to keep people fear of repercussions and keep them in fear of going to hell if they disobey said scriptures) rightly dividing the word of God is a foreign concept to hutterites. because it would not serve, and might threaten, their way of life)

    No I am not bitter unforgiving, or resentful, just because I say it the way it is.
    I could not care less. But please don't call yourself a "Christian" community. Your a "religious" community. Religion is man made and that's what hutterites are.
    Is their Christian among the hutterites? Of course, But they are largely secret Christians, and will eventually rebel against the religious bondage, if they really understand Christianity)


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  36. lydia what do hutterites consider born again christians? sit back shut up and dont speak up about your faith in jesus christ, what should young people do if the have a hunger for the truth according to the word of God? sit and listen to died german sermons which they dont understand? hutterites dont want anybody to go against their rules and traditions, keep everybody stupid, women are consider nothing in the colony expect get married and have kids, i also agree that the hutterites are a religious man made community not christian, people who have a true heart to follow the Lord Jesus Christ according to the word of God will never be able to in a hutterite colony, on thing as christians we need to speak out about Jesus and evangelize and if you do that in the colony wait and see what will happen to you everybody in the colony who takes a strong stand for Jesus is excommunicated or kicked out

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    1. why are you asking me? you seem to have it all figured out. I have no idea the circumstances that brought you to such bitterness, but I certainly can add you to my prayers, (yes I do pray, don't need the leader to pray for me, or tell me what and who I can pray for!) sorry couldn't resist....

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  37. why are people excommunicated in the hutterite colony for saying they are born again? why are people not excommunicated for drinking, girls having kids before they are married, sexual abuse, etc... that is all kept quiet in the colony and swept under the rug

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    1. I have no idea what you are talking about, in any community sin is being punished and not kept quiet and swept under rugs......
      there is forgiveness for sins, if a person repents and turns from their sins, why would you want to excommunicate them? we have all sinned and fallen far from the grace of God. He forgives us our sins, and does not keep reminding everybody that this is what he/she did, unlike small minded humans do......

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  38. what i always consider pretty interesting about the hutterites that as soon as somebody speaks out about how wrong the hutterite system is, then they are consider to have unforgiveness bitterness or hatred towards the system or hutterites why? i am a hutterite and i myself could write a book i think the nine did the right thing, God bless them hopefully hutterites eyes will be opened

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    1. opened to what? that you can do exactly what you want and when you want and not expect any repercussions? you don't agree with the system, fine, leave, but don't slander and blaspheme against it. we are humans, and yes we make mistakes, maybe the best ways to solve some of the issues were not taken but that doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes. but know this, we will all be held accountable for what we did, you and me both.

      I am not going to say that there is no wrong done or unfairness in a community, there is, but it is not being condoned. what have you done to improve on it? besides wanting to write a book, and if you think God is sitting in Heaven rejoicing in that book (or any other book) think again. no, neither is He sitting and rejoicing in wrong doing of any kind, be it done by me or you. two wrongs haven't made a right yet.

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  39. Comments to this post are now closed. I appreciated all comments, but I think it's time to end this discussion. until the next one. :-)

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