Questions asked of the applicants before the prayer:
1. Do you now acknowledge the doctrines, which have hitherto been taught to you, as being the truth and right foundation to salvation?
2. Do you also believe in and agree with the twelve articles of our Christian faith which comprise:
The Apostle's Creed
1. I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and earth.
2. and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord
3 who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary,
4. suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; He descended into Hell:
5 the third day He rose again from the dead.
6. He ascended into Heaven,
7. and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
8. from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
9. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
10. one holy Christian Church, the fellowship of saints,
11. the forgiveness of sins,
12. the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
(each repeats the Apostle's Creed)
3. Do you also desire the prayer of intercession of the pious that God may forgive and remit the sins committed by you in ignorance?
4. Do you desire to consecrate, give and sacrifice yourself to the Lord God in the covenant of Christian baptism?
Here follows the prayer. (after this prayer, while kneeling, follow these six questions:)
1. Do you now sufficiently understand the word of God and acknowledge it as the only path to life eternal?
2. Do you also truly and heartily repent of the sins which you have in ignorance committed against God and do you desire henceforth to fear God, nevermore to sin against God, and rather to suffer death than than ever again to sin willfully against God?
3. Do you also believe that your sins have been forgiven and remitted through Christ and the prayer if intercession of His people?
4. Is it also your desire to accept brotherly punishment and admonition and also to apply the same to others when it is needful?
5. Do you desire thus to consecrate, five and sacrifice yourself with soul and body and all your possessions to the Lord in Heaven, and to be obedient unto Christ and His church?
6. Do you desire thus to establish a covenant with God and all His people and to be baptized upon your confessed belief?
(Note: all of these questions must be answered "yes")
(The minister, laying on his hands and sprinkling with water, speaks the following words:)
"On thy confessed belief I baptize thee, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. God Almighty in heaven who has given you grace and mercy through the death of Christ and the prayer of His Saints may clothe you with fortitude from on high and inscribe your name into the book of eternal life, to preserve thee in piety and faith until death, this is my wish to thee through Jesus Christ. Amen
(For a little more information click on the link, http://www.hutterites.org/our-beliefs/baptism/ this is a website written by Hutterites,)
I wanted to publish our baptism vows before I post my thoughts on baptism regarding my own and what the nine said about baptism.
ReplyDeleteMy My Mr.Wollman, U know your stuff and u present it well. I got to your blog from a well trusted source and I am impressed.-- blessings to the guy who is not so off the wall... ;)
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, to have someone confess that they desire to fear God, and stay on the only path eternal ("The Ark I would assume), or willingly be committing sin. Yeah, all those "extras" do seem rather odd...
Oops, sorry Ms Wollman, my apologies. ;)
Deleteplease explain "rather odd"
DeleteI only wished to show how serious the questions are and how many times they are being taken lightly.
the 'fear of God' is the beginning of wisdom....
The recitations are all good. But its actually deceiving; because the quoting of scripture gives it the appearance of righteousness, but hutterite baptism is more of a ritual than it is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Colony baptism is done according to what age you are, not where a person is in their spiritual walk. when you are 15 yrs old you pretty well know which group of people you will go through baptism with. How can that be, that they decide to follow Christ at the same time, if it's done voluntarily? so it goes to show it is more a "right of passage" into community membership, ie: marriage, jobs, etc, than it is about being born again. conversions don't happen on mass, like they do every year in march, in the colony...
ReplyDeleteBaptism is a personal decision, that has nothing to do with whether or not your age group is getting baptized, or you want to get married. So it more or less makes hutterite baptism, more of a hutterite ritual than a spiritual experience.
Yes I went through that ritual myself. because I did not want to be left behind. what an awful reason to be baptized, the only ones who wanted to go through the ritual were the ones who wanted to get married, or someone is getting to old for sunday school; and I know for a fact that is why most baptisms happen every march.
Just because we try to spiritualize our experiences, doesn't mean that they are spiritual. anytime you "have" to be baptized to "take part in activities on the colony" makes it just a religious ritual, that has nothing to do with Jesus Christ and salvation by grace. This may be what works on the colony, but its not scriptural. So what does that say about the hutterites if they have to take Gods commands and fit them into THEIR way of life as they see fit? In other words they appear Godly by their rhetoric, but in reality its just part of a program.
Anon, baptism is an outwardly sign of an inner conversion, the water does not make anyone a Christian. it's late so I will try and get back to you later. but I feel for you that you took the baptism step so lightly and falsely, and yes, I know many of us do, but there are also many who do take it for all the right reasons. A good example for us to look to is when Jesus was baptized, and what He did after. Good night, and prayers to you....
DeleteI didn't even mention water. I didn't take them lightly and falsely, that is the only thing I knew. Only when I got saved did I realize that hutterite baptism "ritual" is false doctrine. but sincerity isn't everything, you can be sincerely wrong. baptism isn't a crap shoot. ie: "oh we'll make sure all our members get baptized, and maybe a few of them might experience conversion.
ReplyDeletewhat is that??????
you said you went through that ritual because you didn't want to be left behind. to me that means you didn't take baptism because your life had changed and that you wanted to show everyone that you were born again and wanted to make an open commitment before God and His people. that is taking those vows lightly and falsely.
Deleteexplain how it is a false doctrine.
would you let us know what church do you belong to now? because I'm pretty sure are dissatisfied member or former members of it, of course you wouldn't tell us that would you?
all those years Satan has tried to destroy God's church and its people, and he wasn't successful, now it seems he has found the way to do it from within by its own members.
everything we do, we do in order. God is the author of order, not confusion. what would any church be like if it did things on the whims of people?
I don't see anything wrong with baptizing once a year at the same time. I'd say it would be strange if someone came this week and a week later someone else, and 3 weeks later another one. talk about disorder and confusion. when our forefathers sent missionaries out, they sent the converts back to the community where they were baptized, according to the way the colony did it. the missionaries did not baptize them immediately.
Do you even know why we baptize only certain times of the year?
You are implying that we are forced to be baptized, which is a lie, nobody is forced, it is a personal decision, of course when one doesn't want to be baptized the question is; why not?
somewhere's someone mentioned being of a certain age, the thing I have to say here is I am iffy on baptizing children eg ages 12 or 15, not that I don't think they can't be born again, but there is nothing wrong with them waiting a few years. after all how many of us would make a contract with someone that age?
of course if you are no longer part of a colony you would say that we are a cult, you are free to do exactly what you want now, so why are you still pointing fingers at us? do you have peace in your heart? show it and live it.
You hit the nail on the head, " they sent "converts" back to get babtized"
ReplyDeleteI believe you need to have a ritual to become a member of the colony, but "not to "use" a biblical sacred event like baptism, and turn that into a hutterite rule. I don't think its possible to understand this as a cult member, because the lines between becoming a Christian, and becoming a voting hutterite has been blurred. Cults in general believe that being part of their sect is equal to being a Christian. One has nothing to do with the other!!!!
Regarding your comment about ex-huts destroying the hutterites. here is where ex-huts are coming from. Bear with me, cause I'll be using lot of words you don't like, but in order for you to understand this better I will have to use them.
When hutterites are brain-washed, the brain is actually damaged. it's programmed to think a certain way, and hardly EVER outside the box. So these people who leave cults, (not just hutterites, any cult), the brain has to try and do things it has not been trained to do. like make decisions, social interactions, finances, dress codes, jobs, education, etc, etc, etc, all the things one has to do, that they have no experience with. That is why when hutterites leave, that are not Christians, a lot of times, go off the deep end, into drinking sexual activities, theft, drugs etc, because they as well have not been trained to go out and be successful. its all about making lots of money and having fun, rather than creating a good life for themselves. some do, but not many.
It is the same way with Christian ex-huts, except THEY right away are focused on making a life for themselves, because they know there is no going back. But they quickly come up against all the brainwashing that was done..You begin to realize that it has effected the way you think, and that way of thinking does not work anywhere except in a cult. so it becomes extremely difficult to get beyond this barrier. if all Christian ex huts went for councelling, as one professional psychologist, suggested they need to, this could all be taken care of. however because we are now Christians we believe God is in control and he will take care of us.
Well God can't give people an instant education, knowledge, on how the real world works. so there is a lot of stumbling around before we get our footing. you refer to it as going from church to church. trust me, that is the last thing they want to do. but because of the psychological damage that has been done, our brains have to be reprogrammed. which takes time. sometimes years. but their salvation is not in question here, it's daily emotional turmoil, of trying to change the way you think, due to the brainwashing, that is a struggle. it's especially hard because most will leave at the age when education, social net-working and all the things needed to be successful should be established in their lives, but they are not. you can also think of it as no self- confidence.. So having gone through this, and then hearing someone talk about all the wonders of the colony, is like putting salt on a wound.
And that my friend is what you get everytime you feel like your way of life is under attack. Its like they are rebelling against the thing that has caused this difficulty. and it will never stop!! so don't take it personally, if you are in fact a born again Christian, the rage is against the hutterite system, that continues to do the same thing to other, as was done to them. those are what is referred to as triggers. or reminders. and looking from the outside in, is rally sad...So as you can see the religious part is only part of the difficulty that we have with the hutterite lifestyle. I honestly want to just say "its a free country everyone can do whatever they want" BUT because what I just explained it is hard to just sit by and watch. when you have experienced the damage a cult can do to human mind.
I hope you now understand the WHY.
ReplyDeleteI did forget to mention that in cults you are forever linked to the colonies, because our families still live there. so there is no leaving and forgetting. family is not based on where or how one lives.so the connection is always there. I'm sure most Christian huts would like nothing better than for all their family to leave, so they could forget and move on. they love their families just the way everyone else does..
My dear anonymous,
Deletemy heart aches in pain for you and the pain you must be suffering. if like you say you are now a born again Christian, why hasn't God or Jesus relieved you of your pain? because He can and He does! but you have to let go of it in order for God to heal you.
I am not going to stand in defense for my people and my way of life here anymore, the two of us are not ever going to agree, but I would like to say a few more things, if I have ever done harm or wrong to you I beg for forgiveness, I know there must have been done something,somewhere, so I will stand here and speak for myself and all others who have wronged you. I cannot imagine how you can daily go on about your life with all that hanging over you, real or imagined. I am sorry for what you are still dealing with, and all I can say is, if the damage was actually done to you by the leaders of your former community they will be held accountable. but I also know from experience that fault lies not only on one side. and as I have no idea from what community you are originally from I will refrain from saying more.
please believe me when I say I will keep you in my prayers, not because of what you said regarding 'cults' but for the pain and suffering you are needlessly going through, I pray you find peace.
blessings....
PS. in no way is this reply meant to be sarcastic, I sincerely mean every word from my heart.
Lydia
I think you misunderstood my comments. I was explaining to you in a general sense what it is like leaving a cult. I myself,am way past that stage, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten, or that I am not reminded of it every now and again, especially now with the Nine's situation for example.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I explained it to you, is because of the comments you make every time, someone says the truth about the hutt system, and you accuse them of being unforgiving, bitter, pained, etc. I tried to explain that this is not the case, but it is a reaction to the damage being done to people through brainwashing.
Anytime someone goes through any type of abuse, emotional, sexual, physical, psychological, eventually you may claim to be healed but you will react when you hear of others having to go through the same thing. because it is the compassion in human nature that triggers a reaction, and ought NEVER to be prayed away as you suggest. otherwise we are no different than animals.
If we didn't react, we would be worse than the ones committing the offences.
And brainwashing IS psychological abuse; and hence you get the reaction you get from former huts. Just because mind control starts from infancy in the hutt community, does not mean its not happening. it is built into the system, and happens systematically..
you claim to do a lot of reading. but it seems by your responses to peoples comments that you have not understood what it is they have written. or do u not read them?.
ReplyDeleteI actually thought I was doing you a favour by explaining what is happening when exhutts react. so you know they are not attacking you personally!!
ReplyDeleteif by not understanding comments you mean yours, I am not going to respond to the references to cults, as I said I don't need to and I won't defend myself to someone who has a warped idea of what a Christian community is. please don't bother commenting further on this post, I have no wish to close comments to others who genuinely may wish to comment. if you have more to say to me. feel free to email me.....
ReplyDeleteNo thanks.
ReplyDeletewow reading about the hutterite baptism why do we make it sound so nice, i got baptized as a hutterite because i wanted to get married had nothing to do with a personal testimony of receiving Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, why do hutterites only get baptized to get married? why dont they have to stand up and say they are born again and share a personal testimony of when he invited Jesus into his heart? Jesus was fully immersed why do hut just sprinkle, baptism for me as a hutterite was sad with alot of pressure to memorize german verse that is not a true baptism
ReplyDeletethe hutterites can sugar coat and and make anything sound spiritual but you better not make a comment against them cause they will accuse you of being bitter and unforgiving
ReplyDeleteAnonymous AND THE NINE
DeleteI have never seen you or met you (except for junia) but it doesn't take much to figure out that you find problems everywhere except with yourself which is the problem and until you receive that amazing revelation from Jesus you will constantly have problems with people ,,
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and Jehovah will answer; thou shalt cry, and he will say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking wickedly;
what I mean with that scripture is the hurts you have and bitter heart will not get healed from the Lord if you dont quit the pointing of the finger and finding faults
I am an ex hutterite who got mistreated for the differences in what I believed and still believe but but the sticker was and still is, do I respond Christ like or with rebellion ?Am I out to knock in what people belief or show people with my life and love towards them a portrait of Christ and HIs kingdom
,Anonyoums and the nine you are a poor representation of The new and living way which is Jesus Christ and therefore because of the way you represent Christ many that you approach will not turn to Jesus and therefor you will be held accountable on that great day when the Lord returns
,I love the hutterites and have friends there and I no that God loves them that have excepted Jesus just as he loves us no matter if they live in a colony or outside how can I reach them and have fellowship with them except I show a Christ like example of the kingdom with my walk Jesus never taught rebellion but to love and once we have received that revelation to see the plank in our own eye then a person can grow in the Lord .
heres some good advice
My spirit cries out for your soul and I plea for the Lord to give you that revelation but
until you Go back to the colony you come from to reconcile and ask for forgiveness to the once you have hurt and THEN the Lord will heal you ,do they not except your apology then you are free ,but you shall find NOT find rest in your soul nor grow closer to God until you have done that ,
well anonymous, your post is not only bitter and unforgiving, it's spiteful and petty, plus childish. quit while you're ahead.....
DeleteThanks for this. It seems that it could easily be used in my church (other than the descending into hell part of the creed that wasn't in the early versions of it at all)! I thought there would be something about the Colony, but the section about consecrating and sacrificing possessions is to the Lord in Heaven. Something that all Christians must do -the principle of stewardship is for all.
ReplyDeleteThe hutterite sect is anemic and sickly. They have fizzed out like a weak old sprite. Moving on? They mostly all inbred by now too
ReplyDelete